Der Michael Der Kosrofian

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00:00:08:00 - 00:00:29:13
LM: Good morning, Der Hyre. 
DMD: Good morning, Lisa.
LM: Thank you for joining the Armenians of Whitinsville project here in your home parish of Soorp Asdvadzadzin in Whitinsville, Massachusetts.
DMD: Thank you for having me.
LM: So let's start simply with your name and how many years you've been here in Whitinsville.
DMD: My name is Reverend Father Mikael Der Kosrofian
00:00:29:18 - 00:00:57:57
DMD: And I've been in this parish, the parish priest, for nine years. In fact, last week, October 4th, was my ninth anniversary of ordination to the priesthood.
LM: Congratulations.
DMD: Thank you.
LM: But you've been in Whitinsville a lot longer than as pastor. So let's start way back at the very beginning with the beginning of your family here in Whitinsville.  And tell me a little bit about the father that adopted you here.
00:00:58:02 - 00:01:25:53
DMD: Oh, sure. Actually back in 1970, I lost my mother. My brother and I were very young. He was two. I was five. And my mother passed away in a tragic accident. And three years later, my father passed away. So we were orphaned there. And my aunt, my father’s sister lived here in Whitinsville with her husband. And she had a choice to make.
00:01:25:53 - 00:01:53:02
DMD: We would either be placed in an orphanage or she could bring us here, adopt us, and bring us here. So she spoke to her husband, and his name was Mikael Der Kosrofian, and she asked him if he could adopt her two nephews so they wouldn't have to go to an orphanage. And his response immediately was, in Armenian, “Tsakus, yergoo Hye vorp gazadenk“, basically meaning “Sweetheart we’ll be saving two Armenian orphans”.
00:01:53:07 - 00:02:22:01
DMD: And they began the process of adoption. And then on January 12th, 1975, we arrived in the United States at Boston Logan Airport, and we started our journey here. And now I say this great country, the land of opportunity, that we had so many opportunities that we would have never had if we were placed in an orphanage there and served in their military and who knows where we would be today.
00:02:22:06 - 00:02:54:25
DMD: So thank God that her husband, my uncle, and we also called him Mikael Dada because he is our adoptive father in that he had the heart, the kind, caring heart that he had to say “Yes”.   And he was at that time 80 years old to adopt two young boys.
LM: That’s a remarkable story.  But there's more even about Mikael's life before you joined him here in Whitinsville. 
00:02:54:25 - 00:03:24:05
LM: Let's share with some of the people who'll be seeing this video a little bit about Mikael's back story.
DMD: Of course, he arrived here, I believe it was in 1912 from Armenia, Bazmashentsi, and he came alone. He had left his wife behind there. He was married, and he came here to start a new life.
00:03:24:10 - 00:03:53:27
DMD: But because of the things happening in Armenia, the Armenian genocide taking place, his wife was killed. So he had to start life here basically by himself. He worked at the Whitin Machine Works, and he had a tough life, but he was determined and he made it. Even once he was established, he bought a house here in Whitinsville on Church Street from the Ampagoomian family. 
00:03:53:27 - 00:04:17:51
DMD: And I believe the price he paid was $2,000 back then for the house. There was a two family house. Later on, he and his son Leo, added the third floor. It became a three decker, as we call it. And he would sell vegetables, fruits and vegetables from their garden to supplement his income because he worked at the Whitin Machine Works and he was a foreman.
00:04:17:56 - 00:04:49:39
DMD: And I learned later from my aunt that in years before that, he was making $0.09 an hour. And when he had asked for a raise, they gave him half a penny a raise an hour. And this is in 1940s. So he didn't have a very easy life. He had to work hard for everything that he had. And of course, he, along with the other members of the Armenian community here, they were longing for an Armenian church.
00:04:49:40 - 00:05:20:47
DMD: Whitinsville did not have an Armenian church.  I believe at the time Armenians were attending the Congregational Church, so they did fundraising. Paul Whitin and the owner of Whitin Machine Works donated the land to the church or to the community to build a church on. And they were determined.  Fundraising, even dollars. I've seen the book. He was the Treasurer when they were doing the fundraising, and people were giving dollar bills, 5 dollars.
00:05:20:49 - 00:05:59:47
DMD: This church wasn't built with thousand dollar donations or $5,000 donation. It was built with hard earned dollars.  And the church was built, and he was one of the founding members of the church, the builders. And I say this not to be prideful, but I do take some pride in it that at the end --  I learned this information from Mrs. Alice Sagherian -- and she told me when they were at the last $10,000, they were short to complete the building, that he put up $10,000 to pay for the final construction costs.
00:05:59:52 - 00:06:33:03
DMD: So this church meant something – it was very important to him. And he served. He was a deacon. He was on the board of trustees. His son Leo was the first chairperson, chairman of the board of trustees. So I take pride in knowing that a man who was a very humble man, he wasn't rich and famous or popular, but he had a heart and he did the right thing in every way, each time.
00:06:33:08 - 00:07:02:43
DMD: So I take pride in knowing that I am related to his family
LM: And his heritage to Soorp Asdvadzadzin as a church goes back to his Bazmashentsi days.
DMD: Yes, the church in Bazmashen where they all came from was Soorp Asdvadzadzin church, and his father was a pastor. And so this church, they decided to name it Soorp Asdvadzadzin after that church.
00:07:02:48 - 00:07:30:24
DMD: And here I am today. My ordained name is Mikael Der Kosrofian.  So another Mikael Der Kosrofian serving Soorp Asdvadzadzin in the United States.
LM: Right. The generations continue.
DMD: Yes.
LM: Yes. So it must have been difficult. You lost both parents in short order as a child, and you arrived here to America. Did you speak English? Can you talk about your early days and your introduction to life in a small town in Massachusetts -- Whitinsville. 
00:07:30:28 - 00:07:56:54
DMD: Oh, my goodness. Yeah, those were those are fun days, right? No, we didn't speak English. Not a single word of English. And it took me about a year to learn English, the basics. But my aunt enrolled us in school eight days after we arrived, which I think that's crazy. But she was a schoolteacher, so she was very strict.
00:07:56:59 - 00:08:20:06
DMD: And our first day of school, it was the Cross Street school back in my day. Now it's called the Northbridge Elementary School. But my first day of school, I couldn't speak a word of English. And thankfully, the custodian, Oscar Asadoorian, God rest his soul. What a nice man.  He was translating. He was my translator.
00:08:20:06 - 00:08:44:17
DMD: And Nancy Moscofian was also at Balmer School later on, but I remember lunch the first day because I was hungry. And here we are in line getting lunch. And Dorothy Arakelian was one of the lunch ladies serving the food. And I see this round shaped piece of whatever, I guess it was meat on the plate. And I asked, Oscar, what is this?
00:08:44:22 - 00:09:06:02
DMD: It was boiled hot dog, but he translated literally saying “dak shoon”, which means a hot dog. So I didn't eat lunch that day because I said, “These Americans are crazy. They're eating dogs”. So I went home, I told my aunt, and she laughed.  And she said, “No, that's not what a hot dog is.” She explained it, and the second day was the same thing.
00:09:06:02 - 00:09:31:29
DMD: It was tuna fish. And I had the smell of tuna. I didn't eat lunch again. And I'm so used to or I was used to the food we had at home – hatz (bread in Armenian), banir (cheese in Armenian).  You know, string cheese sandwiches, our version of grilled cheese.  Basterma (Armenian cured beef), soujoukh (Armenian sausage), and so on, and lahmajeun (Armenian flatbread) – not this hot dog and tuna fish.  And breakfast just the same --  Kellogg's Corn Flakes.
00:09:31:29 - 00:10:06:03
DMD: And what in the world is this? And my aunt said “Cereal eh, ger” (Armenian for “It’s cereal – eat it). But it was interesting getting accustomed, getting used to it. But now my favorite food is hot dog.
LM: I think there was an affinity for hot dogs among the Armenians that came here.
DMD: Yeah.
LM: So, so let's talk a little bit about your personal journey to end up being ordained a Der Hyre (Armenian priest) and serving in the community that you've adopted as your own, as you came here to America.
00:10:06:08 - 00:10:34:00
DMD: Yeah, they adopted me, and I adopted them. Ever since I can remember, I believe it was around four years old…  I've been going to church since I was four years old, and my grandmother, after she came to stay with us when my mother had passed. So she used to take us to church and especially we were kids, five years old, kindergarten.
00:10:34:00 - 00:11:00:40
DMD: So school, once school was out, every day during the summer we were in church for morning service. All the services that take place throughout the day, which we don't do here in this country. But they do there. And I was raised in church basically. So it became an important part of my life. And coming here again, I was serving on the altar, this altar, at ten years old, at ten years of age.
00:11:00:40 - 00:11:30:01
DMD: And I guess it's in me and I, I always felt a connection to God. And some people might find that weird, but that's okay. I've felt. And now as an adult, looking back, I know God has been with me because every step of the way in my journey in life, He's been with me. And I ask myself, I've asked Him, I'm not worthy…
00:11:30:01 - 00:12:04:02
DMD: …why? And I think God has a special place in his heart for widows and orphans. As it says in the Bible, we’re to help widows and orphans and maybe I didn't have a fair share at life without parents. And he decided, you know, “Yeresus nayetsav”, as we say in Armenian (Armenian for “He looked at my face”) -- to be with us. So I believe it was in the 1990’s, when Der Zareh was our pastor, and I asked him about becoming a Der Hyre, and we talked a little bit…
00:12:04:07 - 00:12:28:39
DMD: Not too much because I was living in New York. So but that's when it started in the nineties and I could feel it. And then later on, about ten years later, in early 2000, I want to say 2001, 2002, I spoke to Der Aram, who was our pastor at the time, about becoming a Der Hyre, about my calling.
00:12:28:43 - 00:13:08:54
DMD: And so he took it seriously, obviously. And we talked about it. But again, I started to hesitate because I questioned myself, my abilities, and I hesitated. But each time I ran the opposite direction, God would come in front of me and pull me back in his direction. So eventually it was 2011 that I jumped in -- both feet -- and I started my training along with at the time his name, baptismal name was Harold, Harold Nazarian, and who is now Der Kapriel in Providence.
00:13:08:58 - 00:13:41:14
DMD: We did our studies together, everything was together. We started together, and we were ordained together.  And I just..  When I speak to God, when I’m in my prayers, I just from the beginning, I said, you know, you wanted me, so I'm in your hands. Whatever happens is up to you. And that's how I treat every day.  I pray, and ask that He be with me every day.
00:13:41:19 - 00:14:14:22
DMD: Because without His guidance, without Him being with me, it's just a role. And I don't want it. I never want it to be a role. I'm not playing a Der Hyre, and it's not a job. This is something serious, to be representing the Almighty. And so here I am. And so far, so good.
LM: On your way, as part of your studies, you found yourself back for a period of the studies, back in the country…
00:14:14:23 - 00:15:06:40
LM: … you left to come here.
DMD: Yes. Yes. And that was I don't know how to explain it. It was weird how it happened because we were supposed to go to Lebanon in September of 2013, but because of the unrest there, they postponed our departure just for fear of danger to us. And then it so happened, everything worked in a way that we would go in January of 2014 and our arrival in Lebanon, Beirut, the airport that I left from in January 12th of 1975, I returned there on January 12th of 2014.
LM: That’s amazing.
DMD: And it is … it's I don't know how I guess we can say some people will say coincidence, but it could have been January 13th,
00:15:06:40 - 00:15:34:49
DMD: January 11th, and it was January. And I didn't pick the date that was when they got the tickets for us from the prelacy. So that was I don't want to say sort of going back home, but it was nice. It was nice being there. I enjoyed it because I knew that culture. It was good. It was good.
00:15:34:49 - 00:16:06:02
DMD: And my grandmother's house in Lebanon was only a walking distance from the seminary. So that was another experience to be there.
LM: That's amazing.
DMD: It is. It is.
LM: So you returned from Lebanon, continued your studies here, and eventually you were ordained.
DMD: Yes.
LM: So talk a little bit about that process from a perspective of you were a member of the congregation here…
00:16:06:02 - 00:16:41:53
LM: …You served on the altar, originally as an acolyte and eventually you were ordained a deacon.
DMD: Yes.
LM: So now you're coming back, and you were going to lead the community that you were part of. So talk a little bit about what that meant for you.
DMD: Well, originally I had no idea I was going to be assigned to Soorp Asdvadzadzin Church because traditionally they never assign you to where you're from, because as Jesus says in the Bible, the prophet is never welcome in his own community.
00:16:41:58 - 00:17:16:53
DMD: And so they don't do that, for whatever reason. I don't know. And I've never asked as to why. I always assumed I would be assigned to the Worcester Holy Trinity Parish. And but for whatever reason, His Eminence, Archbishop Oshagan, our prelate at that time, decided that he would leave me here and he would leave Der Kapriel in Providence, not moving either one of us.  And at times I did wonder, because I am part of the community, I had no skeletons in my closet or anything like that.
00:17:16:53 - 00:17:45:02
DMD: But to everybody, I was just that little kid on the altar, the kid in church, how would they look? How would they react? And thank God and I don't even have to say -- the parishioners have said it -- is that they're happy that I'm the pastor of this church because some of them even wondered, would there be respect, would there be acceptance?
00:17:45:02 - 00:18:14:56
DMD: And as I said earlier, thank God it's still, it's still good. Then I'm praying to God that it will always be good.
LM: You had a chance when you first arrived here to meet some of the original immigrants that came to Whitinsville and created this community. And you've certainly in your capacity as Der Hyre officiated at the funerals of some and of the next generation of…
00:18:15:11 - 00:18:46:07
LM: … people who actually worked to build this church, etc.. So talk a little bit about how you've seen the community change over the years that you've been here.
DMD: I know when we were kids, the thought process, their feelings towards this church was different. The church had more meaning to them because they were all from here. Their children grew up and moved out of town.
00:18:46:12 - 00:19:11:58
DMD: They started their own families, their own lives, their own communities. So I can understand why for that generation and the generations that came after them, it's been difficult to feel the same way their parents did of this church. But it's funny how a lot of people who have left end up coming back to Whitinsville.  Something draws them back to Whitinsville.
00:19:11:58 - 00:19:34:25
DMD: And we do have people here that and one of them, of course, is your sister, Karen, who's back in Whitinsville now too.  So there are people that come back and Jeff Kalousdian, who's a member of your committee also, he lived in Rhode Island for many, many years, but he retired to Whitinsville.
LM: Right.
DMD: So and I again, I moved away.
00:19:34:25 - 00:20:11:03
DMD: I lived in New York, but I'm back here in Whitinsville. Well, so there's something about this community. There's something about this church that draws people who want to be touched they’re touched. I just hope and wish that for the future that the church will be sustained, that it will continue to grow on this, on the journey of the church, that it continues to grow and continues to flourish with people caring.  Because the church, at the end of the day, it's just a building.
00:20:11:08 - 00:20:38:28
DMD: What makes the church are the people in it. So that's what's important is the people, the body, the members of the body to be healthy and to have the same attitude, the same heart, the same feelings that our grandparents did when the church was built.
LM: I always think it's hard for the youngest, the newest generation, because they never had the benefit of knowing the genocide survivors.
00:20:38:33 - 00:21:09:09
DMD: Right.
LM: And, you know, you're part of the generation from town that knew that first community and saw people throughout the generations, you know, make their own adjustments and to American life and contribute. So it's part of our project's journey to help bridge that gap for the kids that never knew the people who made this town, who made this community, it's the chance for them to get some insight.
00:21:09:15 - 00:21:34:44
DMD: And that's very important. And I think the work that you're doing is wonderful. It's wonderful. And it has been successful. And I know it's going to continue to be successful because you're educating everyone. You're opening our eyes because we've gone into assimilation mode. We think the world outside is that's the normal life for us. But we're a little different.
00:21:34:49 - 00:22:07:11
LM: So let's wrap up our conversation. I have a final question I'd like to ask you and then if there's anything else you'd like to add, you can.  Imagine it's 50 years from now, we’re gone, and someone from the future is looking at this interview and they're wondering, you know, what advice you would give to them as they're learning about this community.
00:22:07:16 - 00:22:44:25
LM: Do you have any thoughts to share?
DMD: Well, I have a lot of pictures. I have a lot of documents from over the past 65 years. And of course, growing up in this community as well. One thing throughout the years I've been here, 48 going on, 49 years that has been a constant is the worry, the concern that this church is going to close.
00:22:44:29 - 00:23:15:27
DMD: Even after the first year the church celebrated its first anniversary and they were worried about the church closing. Then. And in the eighties, I compare our church to the waves of the ocean. There's ups, there’s downs, ups, downs, and we were hurting. In the eighties, there'd be three people in church, the choir. We had more people in the choir than we did in the pews.
00:23:15:32 - 00:23:49:32
DMD: The nineties, it went up.  Early 2000’s, up and down. So every year the concern is our church is going to close. And I, I'm confident, just like God said to Abraham, find me five people with faith and I won't destroy the city of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Old Testament and in this community. I think there's more than five people sincere, God loving people.
00:23:49:37 - 00:24:16:50
DMD: And God has never allowed this church, even with only three people in the pews, in  those years in the eighties and the seventies, he's never allowed this church to close. And I don't think he's ever going to because this church is special. And I believe that with all my heart And what makes it special, again, it's not the brick and mortar, it's the people, It's the believers.
00:24:16:55 - 00:24:43:45
DMD: You know, I don't judge anyone. Everyone's different. But I know we have believers in this community and God will sustain this church. So for someone 50 years from now watching this video, I will say to them, we're still here. We're still here. Because if you're seeing this video, 315 Church Street is still here because there is faith. There are believers.
00:24:43:50 - 00:24:59:23
DMD: And as long as we live to serve God, God will be with us. And if God is with us, who can be against us?
LM: Thank you. Der Mikael.  This has been a wonderful conversation.
DMD: Thank you.  It's been a pleasure.

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